An diofar eadar na mùthaidhean a rinneadh air "Genitives in -(th)rach"

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(Created page with "Most Gaelic genitive forms are reasonably close to their nominative forms. One major exceptions is an apparently weird group of nouns which turn an -air into a -thrach ... Actu...")
 
 
(16 mùthaidhean eadar-mheadhanach le 2 chleachdaiche eile nach eil 16 'gan sealltainn)
Loidhne 1: Loidhne 1:
Most Gaelic genitive forms are reasonably close to their nominative forms.  One major exceptions is an apparently weird group of nouns which turn an -air into a -thrach ...
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Most Gaelic genitive forms are reasonably close to their nominative forms.  One major exception is an apparently weird group of nouns which turn an <span style="color: #008000;">-air</span> into a <span style="color: #008000;">-thrach</span> .
  
Actually they are weird and for a change we won't go into the details of why (something to do with the way the cases system changed between Old Irish and Middle Irish) and simply look at what's going on and how we can spot one of them weirdos.
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Actually, they are weird. So for a change we won't go into the details of why (tied to case system changes between Old Irish and Middle Irish) but simply look at what's going on and how we can spot one of them weirdos.
  
In modern Gaelic, they only affect feminine nouns for startes. Add to that the second clue that they affect feminine nouns which end in -air and the list of candidates shrinks considerably. That is because by far the most common nouns which end in -air are masculine, where the -air is the agentive suffix i.e. someone who does something: clach > clachair, sgrìobh > sgrìobhadair.
+
In modern Gaelic, for starters, they only affect feminine nouns. Add the second clue that they only affect feminine nouns which end in <span style="color: #008000;">-air</span> and the list of candidates shrinks considerably. That's because by far the most common nouns which end in <span style="color: #008000;">-air</span> are masculine, where the <span style="color: #008000;">-air</span> is the agentive suffix i.e. someone who does something: <span style="color: #008000;">clach » clachair, sgrìobh » sgrìobhadair.</span>
  
So, let's take a word like iuchair.  It's feminine and ends in -air. What happens is that the -ach ending gets stuck on: *iuchair-ach but because that comes out as a three syllable word (which is a bit long from the Gaelic point of view which likes two syllable words) the second syllable (which was unstressed to begin with) collapses to make way for the -ach. And because the ch is broad [x], the slender r [ɾʲ] gets assimilated into a broad [ɾ].  So we end up with iuchrach.
+
So, let's take a word like <span style="color: #008000;">iuchair</span> in which the feminine ends in <span style="color: #008000;">-air.</span> What happens is that the <span style="color: #008000;">-ach</span> ending gets stuck on: <span style="color: #008000;">*iuchair-ach</span>. But because that comes out as a three syllable word (which is a bit long from the Gaelic point of view which likes two syllable words), the second syllable (which was unstressed to begin with) collapses to make way for the <span style="color: #008000;">-ach.</span> And because the <span style="color: #008000;">ch</span> is broad [x], the slender <span style="color: #008000;">r</span> [] gets assimilated into a broad [r] and we end up with <span style="color: #008000;">iuchrach.</span>
  
Now the catch (and slightly annoying thing) is that this is a bit weird even for Gaelic so over time the number of words which do that has decreased. Basically people played around a bit and settled on a genitive which wasn't as far off. For example in the case of màthair which used to have its genitive as *màthrach (it still does in Irish). But in modern Gaelic this has changed to màthar. Or the word cuid which used to have the genitive codach ... which no-body really uses anymore. Instead they just use the nominative e.g. meud na cuid seo. Oh, plus that people have also started to switch the gender to masculine to bring them in line with all the other -air words. Machair used to be feminine only but today quite a lot of people treat it as if it was masculine.
+
Now the catch (and slightly annoying thing) is that this is a bit weird even for Gaelic.  So, over time, the number of words which do that has decreased. Basically, people played around a bit and settled on a genitive which wasn't as far off. This can be seen in the case of <span style="color: #008000;">màthair</span> which used to have its genitive as <span style="color: #008000;">*màthrach</span> (it still does in Irish). But in modern Gaelic this has changed to <span style="color: #008000;">màthar.</span> Or, a solution was tried with the word <span style="color: #008000;">cuid</span> which used to have the genitive <span style="color: #008000;">codach</span> but which nobody really uses any more. Instead they just use the nominative e.g. <span style="color: #008000;">meud na cuid seo.</span> Oh, plus that, people have also started to switch the gender to masculine to bring them in line with all the other <span style="color: #008000;">-air</span> words. <span style="color: #008000;">Machair</span> used to be feminine only but today quite a lot of people treat it as if it were masculine.
  
So it all gets a bit messy.  But here's a list of some common words that still do or used to:
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So, it all gets a bit messy.  But here's a list of some common words that still do, or used to:
  
One's that do
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{| style="width: 15%;" border="0" align="center"
 +
! colspan="2" align="center" | Ones that do
 +
|-
 +
| <span style="color: #008000;">acair</span> || » <span style="color: #008000;">acrach</span>
 +
|-
 +
| <span style="color: #008000;">anail</span> || » <span style="color: #008000;">analach</span>
 +
|-
 +
| <span style="color: #008000;">caora</span> || » <span style="color: #008000;">caorach</span>
 +
|-
 +
| <span style="color: #008000;">còir</span> || » <span style="color: #008000;">còrach</span>
 +
|-
 +
| <span style="color: #008000;">dàil</span> || » <span style="color: #008000;">dàlach</span>
 +
|-
 +
| <span style="color: #008000;">dìnnear</span> || » <span style="color: #008000;">dìnnearach</span>
 +
|-
 +
| <span style="color: #008000;">iuchair</span> || » <span style="color: #008000;">iuchrach</span>
 +
|-
 +
| <span style="color: #008000;">nathair</span> || » <span style="color: #008000;">nathrach</span>
 +
|-
 +
| <span style="color: #008000;">peasair</span> || » <span style="color: #008000;">peasrach</span>
 +
|-
 +
| <span style="color: #008000;">saothair</span> || » <span style="color: #008000;">saothrach</span>
 +
|-
 +
| <span style="color: #008000;">urchair</span> || » <span style="color: #008000;">urchrach</span>
 +
|-
 +
|}
 +
<br />
 +
{| style="width: 25%;" border="0" align="center"
 +
! colspan="3" align="center" | And ones that don't anymore
 +
|-
 +
| <span style="color: #008000;">cuid</span> || » <span style="color: #008000;">cuid</span> || †<span style="color: #008000;">codach</span>
 +
|-
 +
| <span style="color: #008000;">lasair</span> || » <span style="color: #008000;">lasair</span> || †<span style="color: #008000;">lasrach</span>
 +
|-
 +
| <span style="color: #008000;">muinntir</span> || » <span style="color: #008000;">muinntire</span> || †<span style="color: #008000;">muinntireach</span>
 +
|-
 +
| <span style="color: #008000;">màthair</span> || » <span style="color: #008000;">màthar</span> || †<span style="color: #008000;">màthrach</span>
 +
|-
 +
| <span style="color: #008000;">sàil</span> || » <span style="color: #008000;">sàile</span> || †<span style="color: #008000;">sàlach</span>
 +
|-
 +
| <span style="color: #008000;">suipeir</span> || » <span style="color: #008000;">suipeire</span> || †<span style="color: #008000;">suipeireach</span>
 +
|-
 +
|}
 +
<br />
 +
{| style="width: 30%;" border="0" align="center"
 +
! colspan="3" align="center" | And the undecided camp which allows both
 +
|-
 +
| <span style="color: #008000;">lasair</span> || » <span style="color: #008000;">lasair</span> || <span style="color: #008000;">lasrach</span>
 +
|-
 +
|}
  
acair
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<span style="color: #6600CC;">Yu orait long?</span> as they say in Tok Pisin ...
 
 
 
acrach
 
 
 
anail
 
 
 
 
analach
 
 
 
caora
 
 
 
 
caorach
 
 
 
còir
 
 
 
 
còrach
 
 
 
dàil
 
 
 
 
dàlach
 
 
 
dìnnear
 
 
 
 
dìnnearach
 
 
 
iuchair
 
 
 
 
iuchrach
 
nathair nathrach
 
peasair peasrach
 
 
 
saothair
 
 
 
 
saothrach
 
 
 
urchair
 
 
 
 
urchrach
 
 
 
 
 
 
And one's that don't anymore
 
 
 
cuid (> cuid)
 
 
 
 
†codach
 
 
 
lasair (> lasair)
 
 
 
 
†lasrach
 
 
 
muinntir (> muinntire)
 
 
 
 
†muinntireach
 
 
 
màthair (> màthar)
 
 
 
 
†màthrach
 
 
 
sàil (> sàile)
 
 
 
 
†sàlach
 
 
 
suipeir (> suipeire)
 
 
 
 
†suipeireach
 
 
 
Yu orait long? as they say in Tok Pisin ...
 
 
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{{BeaganGramair}}
 
{{BeaganGramair}}

Am mùthadh mu dheireadh on 02:56, 5 dhen Lùnastal 2013

Most Gaelic genitive forms are reasonably close to their nominative forms. One major exception is an apparently weird group of nouns which turn an -air into a -thrach .

Actually, they are weird. So for a change we won't go into the details of why (tied to case system changes between Old Irish and Middle Irish) but simply look at what's going on and how we can spot one of them weirdos.

In modern Gaelic, for starters, they only affect feminine nouns. Add the second clue that they only affect feminine nouns which end in -air and the list of candidates shrinks considerably. That's because by far the most common nouns which end in -air are masculine, where the -air is the agentive suffix i.e. someone who does something: clach » clachair, sgrìobh » sgrìobhadair.

So, let's take a word like iuchair in which the feminine ends in -air. What happens is that the -ach ending gets stuck on: *iuchair-ach. But because that comes out as a three syllable word (which is a bit long from the Gaelic point of view which likes two syllable words), the second syllable (which was unstressed to begin with) collapses to make way for the -ach. And because the ch is broad [x], the slender r [rʲ] gets assimilated into a broad [r] and we end up with iuchrach.

Now the catch (and slightly annoying thing) is that this is a bit weird even for Gaelic. So, over time, the number of words which do that has decreased. Basically, people played around a bit and settled on a genitive which wasn't as far off. This can be seen in the case of màthair which used to have its genitive as *màthrach (it still does in Irish). But in modern Gaelic this has changed to màthar. Or, a solution was tried with the word cuid which used to have the genitive codach but which nobody really uses any more. Instead they just use the nominative e.g. meud na cuid seo. Oh, plus that, people have also started to switch the gender to masculine to bring them in line with all the other -air words. Machair used to be feminine only but today quite a lot of people treat it as if it were masculine.

So, it all gets a bit messy. But here's a list of some common words that still do, or used to:

Ones that do
acair » acrach
anail » analach
caora » caorach
còir » còrach
dàil » dàlach
dìnnear » dìnnearach
iuchair » iuchrach
nathair » nathrach
peasair » peasrach
saothair » saothrach
urchair » urchrach


And ones that don't anymore
cuid » cuid codach
lasair » lasair lasrach
muinntir » muinntire muinntireach
màthair » màthar màthrach
sàil » sàile sàlach
suipeir » suipeire suipeireach


And the undecided camp which allows both
lasair » lasair lasrach

Yu orait long? as they say in Tok Pisin ...

Beagan gràmair
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